Comments on: Who Is the Holy Spirit, and Why Does It Matter? http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/ "Discovering the truth, one dialogue at a time" Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:14:08 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: sermonrant http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-331 sermonrant Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:29:22 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-331 Also re: speaking in tongues; I have always agreed the way you approach tongues and definitely believe what you wrote, but the Pentecostal teaching usually sees it differently. I don't think that the phrase "Praying in the Spirit" means tongues. There are other more obvious verses in 1 Corinthians that express the point more clearly! Thanks again! Also re: speaking in tongues; I have always agreed the way you approach tongues and definitely believe what you wrote, but the Pentecostal teaching usually sees it differently. I don’t think that the phrase “Praying in the Spirit” means tongues. There are other more obvious verses in 1 Corinthians that express the point more clearly! Thanks again!

]]> By: sermonrant http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-330 sermonrant Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:27:23 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-330 Great post Sandy, and with the clarification, I'm with ya! Yes I do believe there are times when the Spirit is controlling us in a way that appears evident in our lives, and we can experience the Spirit differently. Good point! Great post Sandy, and with the clarification, I’m with ya! Yes I do believe there are times when the Spirit is controlling us in a way that appears evident in our lives, and we can experience the Spirit differently. Good point!

]]> By: Sandy http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-329 Sandy Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:20:05 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-329 Mike, Thank you for your response. I guess I want to clarify my thoughts though. The verses I referred to were not to prove a concept of a "Second Filling". I just wanted to explore the thought that there may be times when the Spirit is more evidently in control of our lives - times where we actually feel the power of His presence to a greater degree than usual and others also see Him in us. (Acts 6:15) Perhaps this has happened to you while you were preaching or speaking with someone about God and His greatness. I don't think that means that the rest of the time we're walking in the flesh necessarily but walking in the flesh most certainly quenches the Holy Spirit's expression in our lives. As for the "haves and have nots". I'm sorry you had an unfortunate experience with some believers who made you feel as if you couldn't pray as well as they because you didn't pray in tongues. (You mentioned this in a recent sermon). I do not feel like a "have not" because I can't preach. I recognize according to 1 Corinthians 12 that there are many gifts that have been disbursed to God's people and we don't each have all of them. But I believe all of them are needed for the Body of Christ to function optimally in this world. Is encouragement being given for every manifestation of the Spirit for the common good in the church? Thank you for this opportunity to express some thoughts and questions that I have been thinking about and praying about. I appreciate the opportunity to find out what our leadership teaches regarding these areas of the Christian life. Mike,
Thank you for your response. I guess I want to clarify my thoughts though. The verses I referred to were not to prove a concept of a “Second Filling”. I just wanted to explore the thought that there may be times when the Spirit is more evidently in control of our lives – times where we actually feel the power of His presence to a greater degree than usual and others also see Him in us. (Acts 6:15) Perhaps this has happened to you while you were preaching or speaking with someone about God and His greatness. I don’t think that means that the rest of the time we’re walking in the flesh necessarily but walking in the flesh most certainly quenches the Holy Spirit’s expression in our lives.
As for the “haves and have nots”. I’m sorry you had an unfortunate experience with some believers who made you feel as if you couldn’t pray as well as they because you didn’t pray in tongues. (You mentioned this in a recent sermon). I do not feel like a “have not” because I can’t preach. I recognize according to 1 Corinthians 12 that there are many gifts that have been disbursed to God’s people and we don’t each have all of them. But I believe all of them are needed for the Body of Christ to function optimally in this world. Is encouragement being given for every manifestation of the Spirit for the common good in the church?
Thank you for this opportunity to express some thoughts and questions that I have been thinking about and praying about. I appreciate the opportunity to find out what our leadership teaches regarding these areas of the Christian life.

]]> By: mike http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-327 mike Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:44:51 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-327 Great question Sandy! Statements like Stephen is filled with the spirit does not assume a second blessing, especially as it is usually taught . Peter is filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 4, but there is no mention of an extra filling. It is a statement of the fact of Acts 2 in the lives of the disciples, which was a fulfillment of Joel 2, and God's promised Spirit on all mankind. I don't think any of these verses or the verses that I answered above prove the "Second Filling" teaching that divides believers into the haves and have nots. I do think that we act on the filling in different degrees. When we are walking fleshly, we are obviously not being empowered/controlled or directed by the Spirit of God, but an infinite God isn't to blame because He hasn't given us enough of His Spirit. We simply are not yielded fully to God's Spirit. As for praying in the Holy Spirit, it is praying in the power of the Spirit from a heart transformed by the Spirit. It is similar to Jesus' statement that His followers would worship Him in "Spirit" and truth. Spirit here is that they have been transformed by the Spirit of God, and nothing more. This is similar to Ephesians 6:18 too. Hope this helps!! Great question Sandy! Statements like Stephen is filled with the spirit does not assume a second blessing, especially as it is usually taught . Peter is filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 4, but there is no mention of an extra filling. It is a statement of the fact of Acts 2 in the lives of the disciples, which was a fulfillment of Joel 2, and God’s promised Spirit on all mankind. I don’t think any of these verses or the verses that I answered above prove the “Second Filling” teaching that divides believers into the haves and have nots. I do think that we act on the filling in different degrees. When we are walking fleshly, we are obviously not being empowered/controlled or directed by the Spirit of God, but an infinite God isn’t to blame because He hasn’t given us enough of His Spirit. We simply are not yielded fully to God’s Spirit.
As for praying in the Holy Spirit, it is praying in the power of the Spirit from a heart transformed by the Spirit. It is similar to Jesus’ statement that His followers would worship Him in “Spirit” and truth. Spirit here is that they have been transformed by the Spirit of God, and nothing more. This is similar to Ephesians 6:18 too. Hope this helps!!

]]> By: Michael Smith http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-318 Michael Smith Fri, 23 May 2008 02:28:06 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-318 Well, I guess if you want to find out if people are reading the web site; just preach on the Holy Spirit. Once again, this sermon was a barn burner. Thanks for you service to our hearts and minds. Well, I guess if you want to find out if people are reading the web site; just preach on the Holy Spirit. Once again, this sermon was a barn burner. Thanks for you service to our hearts and minds.

]]> By: Sandy Smith http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-317 Sandy Smith Thu, 22 May 2008 20:05:22 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-317 I'd like to discuss this further. What do you think it means in Acts 4:8, 13:9, and 13:52 when Peter, Paul and the disciples, who were already believers, were described to be filled with the Holy Spirit on particular occasions? Why was it necessary to note that these people were filled with the Spirit since it happens to all believers when we're saved? Also, Jesus, Stephen and Barnabas are described to be full of the Spirit at particular moments in time in Luke 4:1, Acts 6:3, 6:5, 7:55 and 11:24. Is there some aspect of being filled with the Spirit that is to be an on-going part of a believer's life. Yes, we are sealed in the Holy Spirit when we become believers and He lives in us from then on but are there times when we operate more fully or more obviously under His control and could those times be described as being full of the Spirit or filled with the Spirit? Also, what is it to "pray in the Holy Spirit" as written in Jude 1:20? I’d like to discuss this further. What do you think it means in Acts 4:8, 13:9, and 13:52 when Peter, Paul and the disciples, who were already believers, were described to be filled with the Holy Spirit on particular occasions? Why was it necessary to note that these people were filled with the Spirit since it happens to all believers when we’re saved? Also, Jesus, Stephen and Barnabas are described to be full of the Spirit at particular moments in time in Luke 4:1, Acts 6:3, 6:5, 7:55 and 11:24. Is there some aspect of being filled with the Spirit that is to be an on-going part of a believer’s life. Yes, we are sealed in the Holy Spirit when we become believers and He lives in us from then on but are there times when we operate more fully or more obviously under His control and could those times be described as being full of the Spirit or filled with the Spirit? Also, what is it to “pray in the Holy Spirit” as written in Jude 1:20?

]]> By: sermonrant http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-311 sermonrant Wed, 21 May 2008 18:37:09 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-311 First we need to note that every one who is Christian has the Spirit. Romans 8:9 says that "Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ, He does not belong to Him" (See also 1 Corinthians 12:13). The "Spirit of Christ" is the Holy Spirit, because Christ sent Him (John 16). Then what about verses like Acts 8? The plethora of biblical evidence seems to point to the Spirit coming as a result of salvation (See too Acts 10:44), so we must be careful with a few verses in a transitional book like Acts. In this book we see the Holy Spirit coming on to the disciples (Acts 2) as they waited, and it is quite possible in Acts 8 that since these people were the hated Samaritans that the sending of Peter and John was a way for these two Jewish believers to see with their own eyes baptism of the Spirit on these people. The other verse most referred to by those that advocate a second blessing is Acts 19:1-6, but there they clearly had not heard of the gospel of Jesus yet, and were trusting their "Repentance" from John's baptism. Not only do I believe that there is scant biblical evidence for a "Second" blessing, I think it is usually attached to experiences more than scripture, and it often leads to a hierarchy of spiritual blessing, and potentially a self righteous division of the Haves" and "Have nots." Hope this helps! Thaks for the question, it is a good one! First we need to note that every one who is Christian has the Spirit. Romans 8:9 says that “Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ, He does not belong to Him” (See also 1 Corinthians 12:13). The “Spirit of Christ” is the Holy Spirit, because Christ sent Him (John 16).

Then what about verses like Acts 8? The plethora of biblical evidence seems to point to the Spirit coming as a result of salvation (See too Acts 10:44), so we must be careful with a few verses in a transitional book like Acts. In this book we see the Holy Spirit coming on to the disciples (Acts 2) as they waited, and it is quite possible in Acts 8 that since these people were the hated Samaritans that the sending of Peter and John was a way for these two Jewish believers to see with their own eyes baptism of the Spirit on these people. The other verse most referred to by those that advocate a second blessing is Acts 19:1-6, but there they clearly had not heard of the gospel of Jesus yet, and were trusting their “Repentance” from John’s baptism.

Not only do I believe that there is scant biblical evidence for a “Second” blessing, I think it is usually attached to experiences more than scripture, and it often leads to a hierarchy of spiritual blessing, and potentially a self righteous division of the Haves” and “Have nots.” Hope this helps! Thaks for the question, it is a good one!

]]> By: Doug Birkebak http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-300 Doug Birkebak Tue, 13 May 2008 05:35:56 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-300 Mike, Very good teaching on the Holy Spirit. Question concerning the "baptism" on the Holy Spirit. I understand your notes concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that you believe Pentacost was a one time event and that we recieve the Holy Spirit on belief in Jesus. What are your thoughts on Acts 8:12-17. The people Philip preached to believed, were and baptized. Later Peter and John came, layed hands on the believers and they recieved the Holy Spirit. In this passage being baptized and filled with the Spirit seem to be two separate events. Mike,
Very good teaching on the Holy Spirit.
Question concerning the “baptism” on the Holy Spirit.
I understand your notes concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that you believe Pentacost was a one time event and that we recieve the Holy Spirit on belief in Jesus.
What are your thoughts on Acts 8:12-17. The people Philip preached to believed, were and baptized. Later Peter and John came, layed hands on the believers and they recieved the Holy Spirit.
In this passage being baptized and filled with the Spirit seem to be two separate events.

]]> By: sermonrant http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-299 sermonrant Mon, 12 May 2008 18:10:18 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-299 Julie Great point! You could very well be right. However generally the restraint here is seen as the Holy Spirit working through the "Elect" (Church). Using the Revelation 12 passage is problematic for 2 reasons. First Revelation appears to be talking about a defeat and not a restraint, and secondly you have to read the text through a dispensational lens (Which may be right or wrong), and even then there doesn't appear to be a direct application. Anyway, good thinking, and I appreciate your insight. Let me think on it more! God bless! Mike Julie

Great point! You could very well be right. However generally the restraint here is seen as the Holy Spirit working through the “Elect” (Church). Using the Revelation 12 passage is problematic for 2 reasons. First Revelation appears to be talking about a defeat and not a restraint, and secondly you have to read the text through a dispensational lens (Which may be right or wrong), and even then there doesn’t appear to be a direct application.

Anyway, good thinking, and I appreciate your insight. Let me think on it more! God bless!

Mike

]]> By: Downtown Julie Brown http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/who-is-the-holy-spirit-and-why-does-it-matter/#comment-298 Downtown Julie Brown Mon, 05 May 2008 01:21:24 +0000 http://sermonrant.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-298 Hey Mike...great sermon as usual. I have a question regarding the Spirit being the restrainer (of 2 Thess. 2). Are there any other scripture passages that you are aware of that would indicate that the Spirit restrains, and in what kinds of circumstances? One reason I'm asking is because I have a different theory as to who the restrainer of this passage is. Contextually, the restrainer is restraining specifically the man of lawlessness (commonly understood to be the antichrist also spoken of in Revelation 13 and Daniel 7:25 and 9:27, a few passages among many). According to Daniel 12:1, it is Michael the great prince who protects Daniel's people, but he "arises" (good word study opportunity here), and after he arises, a time of great distress comes. In the same way, according to 2 Thess 2, when the restrainer no longer restrains the man of lawlessness will be revealed (probably by the act of the abomination of desolation; see 2 Thess 2:4 and Matt 24:15). Interestingly, I think Revelation 12:7 supports that the restrainer is Michael the archangel. In that passage a war takes place, which I believe is still yet future (not past as is commonly believed) between Michael and the dragon, in which Michael defeats the dragon and casts him to the earth, where he promptly begins to pursue the "woman" (Israel) and her children (the church), an event that could easily be interpreted as a time of great distress or great tribulation, see Matt 24:21. So, what do you think? Do you think that this passage (2 Thess 2:7) speaking of the restrainer can only be interpreted as being the Spirit, or cross-referencing it with other passages regarding the same subject matter, could it be better to consider the possibility that it's Michael the Archangel? Hey Mike…great sermon as usual. I have a question regarding the Spirit being the restrainer (of 2 Thess. 2). Are there any other scripture passages that you are aware of that would indicate that the Spirit restrains, and in what kinds of circumstances?

One reason I’m asking is because I have a different theory as to who the restrainer of this passage is. Contextually, the restrainer is restraining specifically the man of lawlessness (commonly understood to be the antichrist also spoken of in Revelation 13 and Daniel 7:25 and 9:27, a few passages among many). According to Daniel 12:1, it is Michael the great prince who protects Daniel’s people, but he “arises” (good word study opportunity here), and after he arises, a time of great distress comes. In the same way, according to 2 Thess 2, when the restrainer no longer restrains the man of lawlessness will be revealed (probably by the act of the abomination of desolation; see 2 Thess 2:4 and Matt 24:15). Interestingly, I think Revelation 12:7 supports that the restrainer is Michael the archangel. In that passage a war takes place, which I believe is still yet future (not past as is commonly believed) between Michael and the dragon, in which Michael defeats the dragon and casts him to the earth, where he promptly begins to pursue the “woman” (Israel) and her children (the church), an event that could easily be interpreted as a time of great distress or great tribulation, see Matt 24:21.

So, what do you think? Do you think that this passage (2 Thess 2:7) speaking of the restrainer can only be interpreted as being the Spirit, or cross-referencing it with other passages regarding the same subject matter, could it be better to consider the possibility that it’s Michael the Archangel?

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